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I know that there's much consensus that the tragedy in… - Nothin' matters and what if it did? — LiveJournal

Dec. 15th, 2012

01:16 am

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I know that there's much consensus that the tragedy in Connecticut demonstrates the need for stricter gun control. But I'd like to know more about why people think this. Are people suggesting a full out ban on weapons? It sounds like the guns this dope used were purchased by his mother. Secondly, it seems he had no criminal record, so how exactly would tighter gun laws have prevented this? Secondly, it's worth recalling that Canada has strict gun control laws, but has also experienced horrific school shootings.

I'm not a fan of the 2nd Amendment but I also don't think it deserves all the blame here or that gun laws will solve the school shooting problem.

Update: I think the answer here is that gun control could likely limit the size of ammunition cartridges and semi-automatic weapons. Likely in this case it would have saved a lot of people. The Second Amendment does deserve blame here insofar as fear of it made people less willing to impose these reasonable restrictions.

Comments:

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From:sourdick
Date:December 15th, 2012 12:01 pm (UTC)
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Canada absolutely has had school shootings.. but no where near the frequency. If you want to point to Concordia, or the Polytechnique as examples, they're decades ago. The most recent one that gained traction in the press was at Dawson and that was in 2006.

I can't even keep track of how often multiple fatalities occur in public shootings in the United States.

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From:mijopo
Date:December 15th, 2012 01:32 pm (UTC)
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Dick, I've missed you, man!

Here's a timeline of school shootings from the CBC, including the Edmonton Hub mall shooting seems like a miscategorization to me. But there are a lot of Cdn/ shootings on the list, though, far more than 10% of the US figure, although you're right that most were some time ago. Regardless, if gun laws were the main culprit here we'd expect Canada to have at least a smaller proportion than 10%.

Anyway, as I said, I think gun laws in the US are ridiculous, I just don't see clear evidence that tightening them would solve the school shooting problem, although I think it's likely they would bring down the murder rate.
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From:sourdick
Date:December 15th, 2012 02:12 pm (UTC)
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I think you forgot a link?
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From:mijopo
Date:December 15th, 2012 02:13 pm (UTC)
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Oops, sorry: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2008/09/23/f-school-shootings.html
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From:sourdick
Date:December 15th, 2012 02:17 pm (UTC)
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There seems to be a lot of US ones missing, significant ones as well. No "Dark Knight Rises" massacre?
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From:sourdick
Date:December 15th, 2012 02:15 pm (UTC)
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Heres a link : ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate )

Canada has a little bit more than HALF the gun fatalities per capita. Its not perfect, but man, thats a lot of bodies.

How do you explain that Japan, a country with spectacularly strict gun laws has LESS THAN ONE gun death per 100K? Yes, crimes will happen, but you won't see 20+ people dead from a knife attack in a public place.
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From:mijopo
Date:December 15th, 2012 04:52 pm (UTC)
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Well, as I noted above, I don't have any reason to doubt that stricter gun control would bring down the rate of gun violence, I think it would. I just don't know how exactly it might have functioned to prevent this particular case, i.e., what sort of laws are people proposing that would have stopped this case. We can imagine that gun control prevents gun violence because it's less likely to result in murders in situations in which people suddenly lose their tempers but less likely to prevent these carefully planned situations in which a mentally ill person decides to go out in a blaze of glory. I get that people want to identify a single solution to problems like this, gives us some assurance that we can prevent it, I'm just saying that it's not completely clear to me that stricter gun laws are the solution to prevent the event we saw yesterday.
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From:mijopo
Date:December 15th, 2012 04:54 pm (UTC)
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That is relevant, thanks. I also just found this which is relevant to the general question of guns and the link to violent deaths: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/
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